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MLPT for external programs


lukepower

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I'm still studying how the SGP works and it seems to be a very versatile program. E.g. you're able to input scripts before and after every event !! 

So it really might be possible to use MLPT with the SGP.

 

However, one additional obstacle is that Autoslew/Sequence/MLPT forces us to use Maxim DL and Pinpoint. Pinpoint isn't a problem but using Maxim DL at the same time when the camera is connected to the ASCOM drivers through SGP might be difficult ? 

 

Jay

Edited by Jay
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There are only a few way to engineer / reverse engineer MPLT. 

 

One way is to command all camera, scope and plate solve functions and load the data into autoslew.

 

There is no way for a user to control these functions in SGP.  You can run a script to control other programs.

That means currently SGP would require to script all these functions in an external ASCOM program such as MaxIM.

I don't think you can share a camera connection.

So I think this a dead end without a big effort from ASA and SGP.

 

ACP has some potential because it can script these functions in MaxIM etc. Hopefully, sequence would not be necessary.

You would have to load the MPLT solutions into autoslew.  Only Lukas or someone with a lot of scripting knowledge could reverse engineer this.

 

It might be different if ASA was willing to take requests.

 

Max

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Max,

 

You're probably right. I've started to give up also what comes to ASA's willingness to help or develop their own software.

 

It's a shame that such a wonderful mount is bound to old-fashion and clumsy software. Especially when so much better alternatives are available.

 

Clear skies,

Jay   

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  • 2 weeks later...

Their is 2yr is old in like new condition DDM 85SX with incremental encoders on Astromart.

This poor fellow has been trying to sell it for two months. It is now down to 10,500 USD.

 

If ASA was involved with their customers, I would of snapped it up long ago for my second pier.

ASA support model too strange. Silence is not golden. I don't even know how report a bug any more.

 

I am too nervous to buy another one at any price. Right now my DDM85 is performing perfectly unguided if I use Sequence.

 

 

 

 

Max

 

 

Max

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  • 3 weeks later...

As a dealer I will probably get into trouble for this but anyway.....

 

I (and am sure other dealers) are just as frustrated about the locked in nature of MLPT. I sold a DDM85 for commercial applications 18 months ago based on its unguided abilities but despite this I now discover that commercial user is running the mount with ACP and a guide scope. Sad.

 

I have chased questions of Sequence Run and the ability to integrate MLPT with other programs, particularly SGP but it falls on deaf ears. All I am told is 'we prefer to have our own solution'. The trouble with that is that by the time ASA have their own solution we will be old and grey and it will be limited and not developed enough. I pointed out to ASA that by the time the 'Revolution' concept actually appears it will be outdated. On board systems have been around for a while with the likes of Primaluces Eagle. As for polar alignment with built in cameras, QHY's Polemaster is the obvious one but I recently suggested a customer use Sharpcap (free) on a 50mm guider to get their DDM85 polar aligned quickly. It takes less than 5 minutes and is more than accurate enough to use MLPT. It works the same way as Polemaster. If you have a wide enough FOV you can even use the main scope and camera (if its supported).

 

I think the bottom line is that ASA cannot make up their mind what they want to be. It is either a maker of big professional systems or amateur ones. At the moment it seems they prefer to take the big money. I can understand that but I would have thought that the need to integrate with third party software was an even bigger demand in the professional sector. Even ASA Sales are frustrated (like me) that the DDM60 has been discontinued. I also think that the people within ASA that have the final say have probably got so used to using in house software in a particular way they see no need to do anything. I experienced this 'blinkered' view myself when working for a manufacturer many years ago. Your view of a manufacturer, its products and whats needed when looking from the outside, is very different when your on the inside looking out.

 

Personally I am resigned to using an ASA mount manually. Getting it going on a target with MLPT and letting it do its thing. Maxim allows dither as do SGP and Astro Photography Tool with ASA mounts. They all use PlateSolve now and that just adds to the frustration of having to spend money on Maxim (which I find a bit crude) and Pinpoint. I will be putting a DDM85 out in Spain with our hosting partner E-Eye in the next couple of months. It looks like I will be having some very long nights unless things change!

 

If ASA did not make generally fabulous equipment I would have dropped them and their very odd ways years ago but we live in hope........

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I couldn’t agree with you more…

 

I really love my ASA mount because it’s simply a wonderful piece of equipment when everything is functioning well. However, at the same time I’m completely frustrated with ASA’s willingness to develop their own software, and especially not allowing the MLPT to be used in combination with other software.

 

In addition, ASA mounts are rather complicated to operate, and even small mistakes can cause a lot of problems. Without good (up to date) documentation it feels like a constant battle when trying to make the mount functioning properly.      

 

Sequence is a severely outdated software and a limiting factor when using the mount. Very basic functions are missing like creating a mosaic or framing the target with a skymap (e.g. TheSkyX). You have to do a lot of manual work even with simple sessions. Sequence also forces you to use their own focusing program which I’ve never managed to make working reliably (instead I’m using FocusMax).   

 

The only reason for using the Sequence is the MLPT, and unfortunately the MLPT is a must when doing unguided imaging. Without MLPT the mount is simply like any other high quality mount that needs to be guided.   

 

So I’m stuck with a very high quality mount (mechanically) that cannot be used fully automated because ASA’s peculiar software policy and lack of interest to develop their own software. I don't understand why ASA can't let their customers decide what software they want to use instead of forcing them to operate the mount with outdated software package. This "do it our way or don't do it at all" policy is very shortsighted and not how things should be handled.    

 

Jay

Edited by Jay
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Hi Waldemar,

 

Unfortunately it's only for the 10Micron mounts.

It's based on (late) Per Frejvall's driver and Model Maker software. Now someone has taken it a step further and added quite a few features including "next generation MLPT". The Mountwizzard" software seems to be working jointly with Seguence Generator Pro. A combination I'd love to have with ASA Sequence also. 

 

The additional bonus is that you don't need expensive Maxim DL or Pinpoint to operate it. SGP is about 100 euros and Mountwizzard is free...

Edited by Jay
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  • 2 weeks later...

As a dealer I will probably get into trouble for this but anyway.....

 

I (and am sure other dealers) are just as frustrated about the locked in nature of MLPT. I sold a DDM85 for commercial applications 18 months ago based on its unguided abilities but despite this I now discover that commercial user is running the mount with ACP and a guide scope. Sad.

 

I have chased questions of Sequence Run and the ability to integrate MLPT with other programs, particularly SGP but it falls on deaf ears. All I am told is 'we prefer to have our own solution'. The trouble with that is that by the time ASA have their own solution we will be old and grey and it will be limited and not developed enough. I pointed out to ASA that by the time the 'Revolution' concept actually appears it will be outdated. On board systems have been around for a while with the likes of Primaluces Eagle. As for polar alignment with built in cameras, QHY's Polemaster is the obvious one but I recently suggested a customer use Sharpcap (free) on a 50mm guider to get their DDM85 polar aligned quickly. It takes less than 5 minutes and is more than accurate enough to use MLPT. It works the same way as Polemaster. If you have a wide enough FOV you can even use the main scope and camera (if its supported).

 

I think the bottom line is that ASA cannot make up their mind what they want to be. It is either a maker of big professional systems or amateur ones. At the moment it seems they prefer to take the big money. I can understand that but I would have thought that the need to integrate with third party software was an even bigger demand in the professional sector. Even ASA Sales are frustrated (like me) that the DDM60 has been discontinued. I also think that the people within ASA that have the final say have probably got so used to using in house software in a particular way they see no need to do anything. I experienced this 'blinkered' view myself when working for a manufacturer many years ago. Your view of a manufacturer, its products and whats needed when looking from the outside, is very different when your on the inside looking out.

 

Personally I am resigned to using an ASA mount manually. Getting it going on a target with MLPT and letting it do its thing. Maxim allows dither as do SGP and Astro Photography Tool with ASA mounts. They all use PlateSolve now and that just adds to the frustration of having to spend money on Maxim (which I find a bit crude) and Pinpoint. I will be putting a DDM85 out in Spain with our hosting partner E-Eye in the next couple of months. It looks like I will be having some very long nights unless things change!

 

If ASA did not make generally fabulous equipment I would have dropped them and their very odd ways years ago but we live in hope........

 

They have to make up their mind what business they are in.

 

Believe me, your not the only dealer that has told them this.

 

 

The bigger problem for ASA is that they can lose bids on larger systems based on the reputation for smaller systems. Professional do talk with amateurs from time to time.

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Waldemar,

 

You might be right, I'll probably try it sometime also.

Let me know if you'll get it running. It would be great to be able to use it. I have SGP already...

 

Jay

 

P.S. Installation instructions

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=di4yqzfns5E&t=224s

 

The problem is you have to load the model info into Autoslew.

 

Is MLPT or model info is a standard ASCOM function?

 

I don't think so.

 

Still there might some work around

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  • 4 years later...
  • 1 month later...
On 1/8/2017 at 9:20 AM, lukepower said:

Well guys, this topic flames up about twice a year. I have been in touch with Philipp Keller about this but there was not much interest in doing it, so I tried it myself.

The main problem is that the connection that most of the software packages offer (i.e. ACP, CCD Autopilot and so on) is quite limited. The main issue is the meridian flip: How should we behave if a meridian flip will occour during a run?

We could detect it and then shorten the MLPT run accordingly, in the hope that the automation package will flip afterwards and request a new MLPT run. If this would be ok then my hacked version could do the trick. The other issue is that the interfaces that Sequence uses to send MLPT data to Autoslew may change with every new version, and being undocumented it could be a challenge to keep it working.

 

This all said, I uploaded the latest version to my Dropbox here: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/1bixepr8wanh6wj/AABLJfnQsXgqRLHgq9xznPPla?dl=0

 

It may work and it might not work. Right now when you execute it will basically execute the same stuff Sequence would do when you start an MLPT run:

  1. Connect everything
  2. Start an MLPT run for 50 minutes
  3. Send it to Autoslew
  4. Quit

So, basically one could simply invoke the "mlpt.exe" in the script field before the actual imaging will happen. Let me know any problems you find. As it has been tested only on my computer running Win10, who knows  ;) . Any bugs or requests please PM me.

Hello 

Who can send me this ? 

Best regards 

 

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